Jessica Pin – Female Genital Anatomy Labiaplasty

This discussion highlights the crucial role of accurate representation of female anatomy in educational materials. Jessica Pinn, the founder of The She Project, has successfully advocated for changes in medical textbooks, curricula, and anatomy apps to ensure that women have access to reliable information about their bodies. Susan Bratton, an intimacy expert, emphasizes the importance of accurate illustrations to help women understand their bodies, experience pleasure, and feel normal. This conversation underscores the need to empower women with knowledge about their bodies and promote sexual health and well-being through accurate educational resources.

Full transcript

Susan: Hi, I’m Susan Bratton, Intimacy Expert to Millions and CEO of BetterLover.com. And I’m here with Jessica Pinn. Jessica is an activist and she has a non profit called The She Project that she started six years ago based on some things that happened to her that she’s trying to prevent from happening to other women. So thank you so much for coming down to my studio. I really am happy to have you here. And I’d love for you to just tell our viewers a little bit about the She Project. Give us a level set.

Jessica: Thanks so much for having me. I actually just started She Project, but I have been an activist on my own for six years.

And what I’ve done is I have advocated for better coverage of female anatomy and medical literature and curricula. I’ve gotten 13 major medical textbooks changed and maintenance of certification for OBGYNs changed. And I’ve also gotten updates made to two top anatomy apps, dissection tables, and other medical resources.

Susan: Great. The reason I called Jess and said, hey, come on over to my studio and let’s talk about female anatomy, is that I am about ready to update some illustrations that I’ve been using to teach female and male genital anatomy for many, many years now. I had to have my own illicit illustrations created because I couldn’t find anything in any medical literature in any textbooks that I thought was even a reasonable proximity of what actual genital structures looked like.

And obviously we are, I’m singing your song, Jess, because you’re trying to get these things changed too. So I thought, who better to talk about this desire of mine to have my illustrations look accurate so that women, when they look at it, know that everything is okay.

They have all these incredible parts to their female genital system. And that the more that you know about how your body works, The more you understand how much pleasure you can have from it. And the more you realize how normal you are, and that we all have these parts, and they all look slightly different, like all of us look slightly different, but basically the same.

So I’m going to show you what I have right here. I basically have three things, and I have consulted with Sherry Winston. She’s been my primary, my primary advisor on these various images. So I’ll show you the three that I have and then I’ll show you the thing that’s bothering me the most about them.

So here’s the first one and essentially this is the outer vulva and I’m reasonably okay with this one, but I want your input on it. This is, oops, that’s the penis. Hang on. This one is, I always say, if you take off the skin, these are the three erectile tissue structures that make up the, the pleasure system of the female genitals.

And that would be the blue one, which is the clitoral structure. These are the two blue pieces, the light blue. blue and dark blue. And then this pink one is the urethral sponge. People call it a G spot, but it’s not a spot. It’s a long tube of spongy erectile tissue that surrounds the urethral canal that comes from the bladder out.

And that’s where the urine exits. And then, down here, this little green one, this is the perineal sponge between the base of the vagina and the rectum, which would be down here. The anus going into the rectum. And so there’s one thing about this that I’m not happy with right now. There’s really two things, but I’ll show you this.

I’ll come back to that because I want to show you the third piece. And the third piece is that I blew up the G spot If you will, or the urethral sponge. And I wanted to show that it has this face, this floral face in the vestibule, the opening to the vagina, and that it has these skeins glands where the blood plasma comes in and goes down into the urethral canal.

And when a woman has a contraction and expresses her fluid, that female ejaculatory fluid, isn’t coming from the bladder. It’s coming from her pelvic bowl, just like the vagina when the vagina lubricates. It’s a muscle. It’s not a gland. It doesn’t have lubrication. The blood plasma seeps into the vaginal mucosal linings and wets and lubricates the vagina.

So the thing that I wanted to change the most was the the canal. And the reason I want to change the canal is that based on Jamie McCartney, the artist who did the Great Wall of Vagina Strike Through Vulva, he now is doing castings of the vagina itself. And I don’t like that this looks like a tube like an inside out penis, like the opposite of a penis because it actually looks like this.

It looks like a round cave with a neck and a little sphincter muscle and when it gets excited

It tents. And I think that the problem I have with depicting it as a canal is that it’s, it’s not an inside out penis. And so, So many women struggle to orgasm from intercourse because I think people are visualizing this, you know, the sword in the sheath kind of thing. I just go in and out in and out. And so they never pleasure all of the tissue inside the vagina.

They just, are using friction rather than technique. And so I want to make this how the vagina looks. And then the other thing that I was thinking that I wanted to change is I essentially want it to look much smaller like this. And I always tell women that your vagina is more like a pocket. It’s flat.

It’s flat there at the entrance. It’s not a sphincter muscle. So I want to get that. showing. And then the other thing is that these crura, so if these are the legs of the clitoris down here, and these are the arms of the clitoris or crura, the crura here seem too long to me. And I also feel like they need to go I’m going to go backward a little bit. They need to be going this way a bit, not straight down and laying over the vestibular bulbs which are under the outer labia. So those are kind of my, my three big, you know, issues, or I guess they’re my two big issues that I wanted to change. What are your thoughts when you look at all of this?

I can go back and start with the vulva, and I would be open to any and all of your comments about this too.

Jessica: And I think that’s a really great illustration. You like it? Yeah, I I don’t know. I think the frenulum, the, these two folds, they tend to be a little closer. Okay. And then, yeah, I mean, I think it’s great.

You know, they, they meet up with the clitoral hood. Yeah. I mean, I think that looks,

Susan: This looks like they’re attached to the glands. And I think they need to just really, it’s the clitoral hood turns into the labia. And then when it comes down here, mine has a fair bit of excess tissue down here. You know, not excess.

It’s not excess. It’s just more tissue. That’s like, it’s just like kind of spilling out. pooling down here a little bit. I think where this looks real smooth and I think most people have a little bit more tissue at the bottom. What do you think?

Jessica: I don’t, I don’t know. Some women don’t have anything there really.

I think it just varies. Yeah, it really does. I think this is a pretty normal amount. Okay. I don’t know. I think it like it looks pretty good. Okay. And I like how the urethra is lower down than in a lot of diagrams.

Susan: Huh. And I would like to make that little rosebud y thing so that people understand that that sponge presents on the face here.

And this introidal sphincter seems like it’s hanging open a bit more than I would like it to. I like that you can see the vaginal, you know, the internal vaginal tissue, but I don’t like that it’s so open. I don’t know how to show the sphincter.

Jessica: Yeah, I think some women can have more open vaginas, but the way that vagina, the vaginal entrance tends to be exaggerated in most medical illustrations always bothers me.

That’s not nearly as exaggerated as in a lot of medical textbooks.

Susan: Yeah, I think I’m gonna make the vaginal opening smaller. I’m gonna put the rosebud here. I’m gonna make these labia a little bit bigger because That is one of the things that you and I are both railing against is that women think that their labia are, are too big.

And, you know, you’re, you’ve been very, very vocal about the unnecessary labiaplasties that are happening and all the things that can go wrong because the medical textbooks aren’t accurately teaching the surgeons what to do. And that, that is for the most part, an unnecessary surgery. I’d also like these labia to be a little more, plump and lush and pronounced so that women who have more plump labia don’t think there’s something wrong with them. Like, I think what I’m mostly worried about is women looking at this and going, I don’t look at anything like that. I really, you know, something’s wrong with me. And so adding a little volume to everything instead of keeping it all tiny seems a little more real and wrinklier.

I’d like it to be a little more like, you know, when you look at a vulva, it’s more like, just kind of like a hot mess. It’s all like, all mungled together and this is kind of open and separated because we want to show the vestibule. But I wouldn’t mind showing the edges of the, edges of the labia not matching.

Okay. Having them be unmatched because so many women’s labias are totally different sizes.

Jessica: I think they’re also doing like skin treatments for the labia minora now to like make them smoother and like all of this crazy stuff.

Susan: I’d like to make them darker. I’d like to make them the dark color that they are, too, so that women know that that’s normal, that it doesn’t have to be perfect pink.

You know, that would be appealing to me, too. And I like this nice, meaty clit hood. One of the things that I found is that I like the sensation of my shaft being pleasured, above here and not just always directly on my clitoris, that I get as much pleasure from the stimulation above on the shaft as I do on the tip of the clitoris.

Jessica: You get just as much? Okay.

Susan: Yeah, I like it all. But I developed it over over a long time of being pleasured, manually pleasured by my partner. The outer labia are very, very pleasurable to me. The inner labia are orgasmic for me. Just in touching them, I can have orgasms. The introidal sphincter likes to be gently touched.

I can have an orgasm from this part of the urethral sponge being touched. I like the stimulation inside the vestibule. I like all of it. Okay. But I didn’t start out that way. You know, when I was in my twenties, the only thing that really felt good was touching the tip of my clitoris, but in the orgasmic activation of my whole vulva, it’s all become pleasurably orgasmic.

Jessica: Okay. Interesting.

Susan: Yeah. So, okay. Going back over what you would change about this. Tell me again.

Jessica: I mean, I think it’s good. The only thing that I was suggesting was making it so these two folds are closer right here. Okay. Otherwise, yeah, I, I guess I agreed with you on the vagina.

Susan: Yeah. Okay.

Good.

And then what about here?

How would you improve this?

Jessica: So honestly, I don’t pay as much attention to the bulbs and crura. However, yeah, I think the crura are a little bit shorter. Personally, I think a really good reference is it’s DiMarino and Lupiti’s Anatomic Study of the Clitoral Organ. Yeah. And they’ve dissected out a bunch of clitorises.

Yeah, I saw that. Okay. So I think that’s really useful. And one thing in that book is the, they show how this part is longer compared to this part, like, like proportionately.

Susan: The, you mean the clitoral shaft is longer than the crura?

Jessica: Not long, I’m sorry, not longer than the crura, but like, the relative length is a little longer.

I would have to look up like,

Susan: You would have the drop be more here. You’d have a longer drop because this is covered by the hood. And here’s the glance. I’d also like the glands to be less round and more like the glands looks, which is more like the tip of a penis. Yeah, I’d

like it to be like really glanzy looking.

Jessica: Yeah. Mm-Hmm. , I think people are often afraid to represent the clitoris, how it actually looks because of how much it resembles a penis. Uhhuh, . I think there’s a lot of fear of that. Hmm. Not if you like big clit energy. , I guess. .

Susan: Okay. Good. And the vagina. What do you think about that and what do you think about the urethral sponge?

Jessica: I. I think it looks fine. I thought that what you said before about making this smaller at the front and then showing it how it really is on the inside. Yeah. Would be better.

Susan: I’m almost thinking too that what I should do is I should have two versions. Where’d my balloon go? I should have a version that is like before engorgement and after engorgement.

I’d like to show the crura. The vestibular bulbs. The vaginal pocket. I like to call it a pocket or a cave instead of a, you know, canal because it gets, it moves the mind away from a sword and a sheath, you know?

I’d like to have one that’s flaccid and the clitoral structures are flaccid. And then I’d like to have one that’s engorged so women can see Yeah, putting 20 minutes of good pleasuring time in can make such a huge difference.

So I’m thinking I might do like a before and after, and that way I can show this kind of flaccid pocket, and then I can show it a little tented with the cervix pulled up a little bit. And I also definitely want to show how the cervix presses down into the cave because so many women are interested in cervical orgasms.

They want to, they’ve heard about this and they want to know how to have it and what is it like. And, you know, so I think I want to really make sure that the cervix is present in the anatomical picture.

Jessica: Okay. Yeah. That’s the one thing. Well, I’ve been curious about that because they’ve, I guess some women who have had spinal cord injuries and have lost genital sensation can still orgasm from their cervixes.

I think that’s interesting. I have not been able to yet.

Susan: It just takes practice. I mean one of the things that I talk a lot about, and that’s another thing I wanted to show you. One of the things that I talk a lot about is this notion of orgasmic cross training. And so, the idea, let me get Susie’s little bag of toys here.

Have a very big bag.

A couple of things and then I want to show you the pumps, the vulva and clitoral pumps too for continuing to bring blood flow into the tissue.

So when I, when I tell women that, You become more orgasmic as you age, when you activate all the tissue, when you touch all the parts, they’re all potentially orgasmic.

It’s not just the tip or the glands of the clitoris, but the whole vulva is orgasmic. The whole vagina is orgasmic. And that you have to activate the neural pathways to the brain, the biggest sex organ. And you can use a lot of different tools to do this cross training, stimulating the different areas of the vulva.

So one that I love is, have you tried the VIM yet?

Jessica: No, I’m scared of wands.

Susan: Well, here’s what I like about the Vim. So I know you’re scared of wands and that’s why I want you to feel it because the regular, you know, magic wand, it’s, it’s kind of like really on the surface of your skin and it can really bombard your nervous system and kind of wear you out a little bit.

This is where, this is where women are like, I don’t know. I don’t, what if I can’t orgasm again? You know?

Jessica: Well, I actually, well, for me, I need like very specific stimulation. So for whatever reason. Like with the Hitachi, I could not at any point feel any pleasure at all, like at all, not for a single moment.

So it just goes, you know, it was just straight to numbing. There was never any pleasure. Too numbing for you. And that’s been, I have tried a couple other wands and that’s been my only experience with wands.

Susan: This particular wand, the Vim, I like this and all of these toys that I’m showing are at OrgasmicCrossTraining.com

The eight types of toys that activate all of the different areas of the vulva that I’m going to kind of show Jess.

What I like about the Vim is that they’ve made it such that it actually penetrates into the tissue. It’s not just stimulating the skin. And that’s what I didn’t ever like about the Magic Wands, is that they felt like they were overly stimulating to the skin.

And so you might like some, you might like to try something like this, but it doesn’t matter because I have more. So remember when we were talking about the rabbit, the internal external,

This, yeah, it’s hard to find a rabbit that fits right.

It is. And what I like is that these are Fun Factory lady by and miss by.

And what’s nice is for somebody with a giant vagina like me, I like this one. I like that full feeling, but there’s lots of women who want a much smaller you know, not, not as much penetrative experience, or they just have a smaller vaginal pocket. And I like this because it’s double stimulation. It’s a, it’s two motors.

So you’re getting the external clitoral stimulation with the internal stimulation.

Jessica: So, yeah, I mean, for me, the challenge is having this angle be correct. Yeah, like having it all line up, right? Because like, exactly what happens to me, TMI? Yeah. You know, like, the Like once I put it in the clitoral simulator will be way out and that like it won’t be making any contact with anything.

Susan: I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. It’s a lot of times what I do is I put the measurements on the site so that if you know what your measurements are from your introidal sphincter, the opening to your vagina to your clitoris, you can get something that’s going to fit you in the gaps. Okay. This is an interesting one too.

It has that same problem. Let’s see. Here it is. This one is the Womanizer, but it has a g spot Stimulator. So this goes inside the vagina.

Jessica: Oh yeah, I’ve seen that. That would never work for me. It wouldn’t line up. It wouldn’t line up.

Susan: You need two inches. You need two inches between the clitoris and the opening to your G area.

Jessica: Well, I guess my problem is, well, anyway, TMI because I have to get it up. Like it would have to be

Susan: Yes, this wouldn’t work for you, but this one would, which is just the air stimulator, the classic air stimulator.

Jessica: I have the pro. Huh. Yeah.

Susan: Well, there you go. You’re a pro. And this one’s nice because for a woman who wants to activate her G area and stimulate her vagina at the same time, this is the Poco by Mystery Vibe, and this will bend to fit you.

Which is another thing I really like about it. Oh, okay. And so you can put it on your clitoris and wrap it around for I didn’t want to say it first. G spot.

Jessica: Yeah, I mean, for me what matters is the type of vibration. Yeah. So I actually wish there were more specs on that. Like when you’re buying sex toys, if you could Yeah.

If there was like a, an objective measurement. Right. Because I’m typically looking for like a very specific Vibration that I wish was quantified.

Susan: How do you describe that?

Jessica: I don’t know. Like here, well, let’s turn on. It always depends. I mean, I don’t know. It’s not, I guess people tend to talk about buzzy versus rumbly and buzzy.

Right. And I guess I like some happy medium.

Susan: Yeah. Yeah, that’s this particular one. I don’t think it’s charged either. I’ve been gone for 40 days, and I haven’t charged them. This one’s nice because it has a squishy tip. It’s a g spot toy. It can also go intervaginally, and it’s also good for women who are like, so skinny.

Super sensitive and they hardly like any stimulation. They like the lightest of stimulation and it has the treble and the vibe. Oh, interesting. So you can, it’s got the buzzy and the rumbly and you can adjust it. I don’t know. Probably not. It’s not charged. No. I should have charged him before you got here.

Darn it. That was dumb of me. Yeah, I think it’s DOA, sorry about that. This is another one that some women, it’s their favorite one. This one is a, it’s called a licker. And it’s very, very clitorally oriented. Obviously, you could insert this in the vagina, but some women, this is their absolute favorite vibe.

Jessica: Feel it. Interesting. It’s like a motorboat. Yeah, I have no idea how that would work for me. I know, I know. I haven’t tried one like that before.

Susan: I know, it’s so interesting to try all these different things. Yeah, so there’s just a lot of different vibrators. And then I wanted to show you. This is the lady pump.

Okay. This is the vulva pump. And this is the clitoral pump. Hmm. And this is the hand pump, and essentially, essentially you can just put this on, you just go like this, and then you insert this around the clitoral structure, the clitoral glands and shaft and pump, and your clitoris gets pulled in to this little pump.

And you can do it on your whole vulva. So you can put your labia and wrap this around your labia and your clitoris and you can pull blood into essentially the vestibular bulbs underneath the labia and then that these really aid in engorgement they are good for people who want who feel like their clitoris is atrophying or their labia are atrophying and they want to reverse the atrophy so they want to pull the blood in it’s also really good for stimulating engorgement Pretty cool, huh?

Who knew, right?

Jessica: I want to try that one. I think you would. Well, because it’s so important to have engorgement of the bulbs before penetration.

Susan: Exactly. I think this is great. And there’s another thing I really like for engorgement before penetration. I’ve got quite the bag of tricks, don’t I? This is called, I call this the vagina device.

This is at VaginaDevice.com. And it’s red light therapy.

So it’s intravaginal, it goes inside the vagina, and it’s photobiomodulation, so it’s generating mitochondrial biogenesis by stimulating the red light in the vaginal canal. It’s also really good for building glycogen levels, which is what the good bacteria in your vagina like.

And it has this slight vibration. It’s very light vibration. Take it. It’s a very light vibration. That’s helpful for Kegel toning. And the warmth, it’ll start to get warm. And it feels so good. And the warmth is nice because that’s very good for keeping the collagen levels high in the vaginal mucosal lining.

Because they thin as we age and as our estrogen drops. So what I like about this vagina device is that it’s really good for rejuvenation, but it’s also really good for if you know you’re going to have a lovemaking date. and you kind of want, you know that you can get the external bits massaged and orally pleasured for your foreplay, which I think is just called sex.

Because it’s not always leading up to intercourse. So like foreplay versus intercourse, I just think it’s, we should kind of knock those words out. But what I like about it is that it gets the internal structures very full of blood flow. So the penetrative experience is much nicer. So you can get to it from the outside, but you can also warm it up from the inside.

So I really like that.

Jessica: I tend to think normally simulating the clitoris is most key for getting the vestibular bulbs engorged.

Susan: Yeah, I mean, they are, well, there’s a couple things. One is the, let me just turn that off one is the your breasts and your lips and mouth. and your clitoris all start that prolactin drop that starts the blood flow to your vulva.

Jessica: Yeah, I mean that’s all true, but according to research on women who have suffered from female genital mutilation when they have had their clitorises or their, the glands and some of the clitoral body actually amputated yeah, which is horrible. Yeah. They actually have atrophy of the bulbs and crua internally.

Yeah. And the reason why is because. when you’re not having like regular erections, the tissue shrinks. Yes. And so it just kind of shows you how, even though like they’re having sex and, you know, hopefully getting as aroused as they can be and getting as much pleasure, having intercourse, you mean? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That there’s this impact because of the lack of, you know, engorgement of the clitoral shaft and glands. Yeah, but what that means is that the bulbs in crura are not getting anything gorge. So like, that’s why I tend to think, also for me personally, because I struggle a bit because I have clitoral nerve damage, which is why I’ve done my advocacy work.

It’s just, it’s so important to try and like stimulate like the external part of my clitoris in order to make it so that the bulbs and everything internally are engorged. Like that’s just the most key thing. And it makes penetration so much better.

Susan: Yeah. And when you say stimulate the external parts of your clitoris, what specifically are you talking about?

Jessica: Well, for me, I’m talking about the clitoral body. Yeah. Which actually, strangely, a lot of women aren’t even aware of. Yeah. But it’s the, you know, the shaft part that’s under the clitoral hood.

Susan: Yeah. Yeah, I really like that clitoral body and often if you start by stimulating the clitoral body or the shaft is kind of how I describe it, the part under the hood.

You start there and you start with the outer labia and kneading them and rubbing them. And then the inner labia, if you have them kind of going from the outside in, you know, starting with the mons and the outer labia and then the clitoral hood and then the inner labia before even touching the clitoral glands or going in the vestibule.

I like people to think about it like a bullseye where you’re starting on the outside rings and working your way in so that everything can kind of slowly fill up before you go like straight to the clitoris. That seems to work well for most people but everybody’s different.

Jessica: Yeah, I guess, TMI for me, I’m just trying to go straight to where I have sensation.

Where you have sensation, exactly. That’s, that’s it. Yeah. It’s straight to where I have the most sensation, and that’s what I’m trying to do. That’s what’s my strategy.

Susan: Yeah. Yeah. No, I understand. I understand. I just like for people to have different options to think about things in different ways, maybe to try that too, you know, to kind of work from the outside in and to kind of sneak up on it a little bit and get all the external stuff really fluffed up.

And, and that helps a lot. And then also, that idea of engorging the vagina internally. And thinking about that, pleasuring that area before it’s penetrated. So that it’s not just like being penetrated too quickly. You know, I think that happens to so many women.

Jessica: Yeah, it really does. I think a lot of women are getting penetrated before they’re fully lubricated before they’re fully engorged.

You know, because there are all these women who say that, you know, their labia minora cause them problems during sex. But there was a study that showed that labia minora size is not correlated with physical complaints and most physical complaints are sexual complaints. So what this means is, you know, Most of the time, probably a woman has an issue with her labia minora getting pulled during sex.

The problem is not actually the size because her labia minora are not likely to be bigger than someone who’s not complaining. So then you have to consider what the problem might actually be. And I really think that it, it’s probably a lack of you know, a lack of lubrication, a lack of engorgement. That’s not to say that there aren’t women who really have.

that are, that are so big they cause them problems. But most of the time, the size is not the problem. And I’ve even, I’ve even talked to one woman where I asked her if she still had a problem when she was fully aroused. And she said no, but that it was unreasonable to expect her to be fully aroused before getting penetrated.

Oh, I was like, no, no,

Susan: It’s very reasonable to be aroused before being penetrated. It takes 20 or 30 minutes for women to get to full arousal. We have to allow ourselves that time.

Jessica: Yeah, I think as much time as women need is how much they should get.

Susan: Yeah. Me too.

There’s one more thing I want to show you.

This is something that I’ve recently discovered and fell in love with and I can send you home with some. Okay.

This is what I have started calling a pleasure protocol for lubricants.

So the thing I don’t like about most lubricants is that when you go to a drug store or a grocery store and you buy a sexual lubricant, it’s got a lot of chemicals in it that I always say, if you wouldn’t put it in your mouth, you shouldn’t put it in your vulva.

So I was really, I’ve always been looking for natural lubricants and I’ve found natural lubricants, but never one that I thought was an intelligent system.

So this is a combination of three things. There’s something called the awaken oil. the sex oil, which is the lube itself. This one is a pre lubricant, if you will.

And this is called intimacy melts. And essentially you put this awaken oil on. You, you take a couple of pumps and you rub it on the the clitoral hood, the outer labia, the inner labia, the vestibule, the perineal area, and you just put a small coating on and it has CBD.

It has phytocannabinoids. Plant based cannabinoids that trigger our body’s endocannabinoid system, which is our pleasure healing pathway.

And it, when you do that, what it’s doing is it’s activating the, the, the receptors in the labial tissue and the in the vulval tissue, and it’s sending signals to the brain of sensation, pleasurable sensation.

Then. You can use as much of the lubricant on top of it as you want to. And that gives you nice slip and glide and keeps things really moving and fluid. And works with your natural vaginal lubrication.

It helps you gain more vaginal lubrication. And if you’re If you’re a person who has trouble lubricating in your vagina, then these melts are little suppositories.

I’ll show you what they look like. I’ll leave them in so you get to try them. But they’re little suppositories. You just use one. There’s four in here. And you open up the pack and pop it right in your vaginal canal. And it melts and it coats the canal. It’s cocoa butter, with CBD and some botanicals. And so if penetrate, if you, it’s hard to get lube up inside the vaginal sphincter, just hard to get enough up in there sometimes.

And so I really like these melts for adding that nice slide for intercourse or toy play or what have you. They also make booty melts if you are an anal sex lover, which I never was until this last year. And now at like 62 years old. I’m like, Oh my God, if you have a great partner who really knows what they’re doing, it’s incredibly pleasurable.

So you know how some women are like, I’m not wired for this, or I’m not wired for that. I feel like we connect our wires as we age, as we get more comfortable, as we start to activate more areas, that all of these things can be pleasurable. So anyway, I’d love to give you some of this. Okay. Awesome.

Pleasure Protocol. It’s at pleasureprotocol. com. So if you want to learn more about that, it’s, it’s there too. But that’s a neat idea, isn’t it?

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I get afraid of lubes because Me too. Yeah, they can like sting.

Susan: Yeah, they’re, they’re crap, but this is beautiful stuff. All good organic hemp, organic botanicals.

Really wonderful.

So anything else that you want to talk about? Are there some unspoken things that we want to get on film? Anything that we didn’t cover that you’d like to?

Jessica: I can’t think of anything. I guess I have my anatomy models.

Susan: Yeah, sure. Yeah, I’d love for you to go ahead.

Jessica: So this is my model of the clitoris.

And I had it made to show a, what a cross section of the clitoris looks like. Great. Because basically a cross section of the clitoral body, this is the clitoral body right here, and you can feel it under the clitoral hood. Mm-Hmm. If you go back and forth with your finger like this. Mm-Hmm. . I love that. So a cross section of this looks very, very similar to a cross section of the penile shaft.

Mm-Hmm. . And so this is the anatomy that I’ve been getting added to medical textbooks. I have a bigger version here. So basically these are the nerves and these nerves were missing from OBGYN literature prior to 2000. So I’ve been getting this anatomy into textbooks and it’s now shown in a couple anatomy apps and on Medscape and a few other medical resources. It has been added to maintenance of certification for OBGYNs, but it is still optional learning for general OBGYNs. If you want to go to a doctor who knows more about your clitoris, you need to go to a urogynecologist. They are required to learn it now.

Susan: Thank you. That’s a good tip.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. So like if you’re having surgery on your vulva, which I recommend avoiding if you can. You want to make sure you go to a doctor who is educated about the anatomy. Most OBGYNs and plastic surgeons never learned this anatomy in their training. They never learned where these nerves are.

They travel like this on the top of the clitoral body, under the clitoral hood. Here’s another little model. And so you can see. the nerves and blood vessels. And I’m trying to make it so that this anatomy is actually taught in first year medical school anatomy class. They teach it for men, so I don’t see any reason why they can’t also teach it for women.

Also, the nerves are quite easy to dissect. I did a study with plastic surgeons, and we dissected the course of these nerves in the clitoris, and I was able to do it very easily, just with some scissors. And so it’s a little bit silly that, you know, they’re not having medical students do that when they are having them do it for the penis.

Yeah. So even though the clitoris is much smaller than the penis, it still has these very big nerves because there are so many nerve endings. Yeah. So that’s really important.

Susan: I love it. Let me see. Oh yeah, that’s pretty cool. You had this made. Yeah. I’m jealous of your clitoris. That’s super neat! I love it.

It’s so hard for us sex educators to get good anatomical models. I mean, I’m making my own illustrations with an illustrator and you had to have this designed. I mean, we just don’t even get these things. So it’s great that you have this to

show.

Jessica: I got this this artist in, I think she’s in Austria, Stephanie Grubel.

She made this. I reached out to her early on in my activism and I asked her, if she would be interested in making detailed illustrations and models of the clitoris. And it was great because she was previously just like showing the shape. Yeah. And then she was really interested in learning and she created this and she’s created amazing illustrations that have helped so much with my advocacy.

And she actually sent this to me as a thank you.

Susan: Aw, that’s so sweet. Yeah, that’s very nice. This is a beautiful cross section. I love it. Yeah, we have the same exact erectile tissue chambers as the penis. We have a penis. We have a penis worth of erectile tissue in our vulvas, wrapped around our vaginas, draped around there.

So it takes us, because we have inies, not outies, it takes us, because we have nooks and crannies, 20 or 30 minutes to full engorgement. We need that time to achieve our pleasure potential. Never let anyone take Cheat you out of your pleasure potential. That’s what we’re here to help you with, and to love your anatomy, and to know that you are beautiful, and that you are just one more of the perfect and unique snowflakes of vulvas on this planet. And the more that you love yourself, the more pleasure you can create for yourself.

And that’s what makes life worth living. Your sexuality is a gift, a gift of your humanity. And Jess and I just really wanted to get together and, you know, support you in knowing about and loving your labia and all of it.

All right. Thank you so much for. coming down today and hanging out with me and bringing your toys.

Jessica: Thank you so much for having me.

Susan: It was really nice. So you can follow Jess @JessicaPin on Instagram. And I think you’re where else you’re also on TikTok. Yep. Yep. So just jessicapin P I N. And I’m Susan Bratton, S U S A N B R A T T O N. And we’ll see you on the other side. Take care.