[00:00:00] So we’re talking about female sexuality. Yeah, we are. Yeah. You know, I think it was different for. Women of African descent and women of European descent in this country. I don’t know about other countries, but even feminism, like I always say, I’m not a feminist and some white women get mad at me. You mad at me for saying that?
No. I wanna hear what you mean by it. I’m not a feminist because during the feminist movement, black women were not involved. There was never a time we’re fighting to work. Mm-hmm. We have done nothing but work since we came to this country. So it’s, no, we wanna work, you know? Yeah. We’ve never stopped working.
Yeah. So, and then I also fight against the term strong woman. I don’t wanna be considered a strong woman because that’s what they considered us. So that ox interesting. Yeah. So that oxen sort of mentality that we’re strong, we can do anything. I shun that uhhuh. So there’s a lot of, I think, opposites I feel when, you know, when I hear, when I wanna hear about your side.
Mm-hmm. But for sexuality, being a strong worker or ox. Mm-hmm. That makes sense. It [00:01:00] doesn’t make you feel like. You’re supposed to be receiving something. Yeah. So from the time I was young, I had to really fight against not feeling like this was just another task Yeah. That the ox must do. Right. And then when I transformed that, I, I really learned that, you know, a man is giving you something, even if you look at the act of sex.
Mm-hmm. He’s giving you something, you’re receiving something. But I couldn’t tap into that for a very long time. Okay. Because of the service oriented nature of our history here. Mm-hmm. So that was one big hurdle that I don’t know if you had on your side, but I do want to hear your side. Mm-hmm. Um, but for black women also, um, I.
It just, it felt weird to be sexualized to one extent where, you know, you got asses, you got twerking, you got all these things, but then you’re sort of denigrated back to that oxen thing. So are we sexy or are we in the background and just to be workers, you know, which are we? Yeah, everyone wants to [00:02:00] do the things that we’re doing here, but nobody is our friend.
Mm-hmm. Like you understand, connected to us or, yeah. Play parties. I remember the first play parties I went to were all white. Mm-hmm. And I just felt like, I felt sort of objectified. Like they wanna see that fat, but it’s not, I don’t know what part I play. Yeah. In your world, you know? So it’s a lot of things to debunk.
Mm-hmm. On my side. And I think that healing together means that we have to hear each other’s stories like this. Exactly.
Yeah. I wanna hear more about a black woman’s experience of her sexuality. Mm-hmm. You said you are against feminism, you don’t feel, if that’s the right term, and you feel like, um, be this kind of like service job mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Is really antithetical to who you wanna be. How do you wanna be treated? If I, if I could treat you mm-hmm. The way that you wanna be treated to get your. The feeling that you wanna feel. Mm-hmm. And to not only feel the feeling you wanna feel, but to fix [00:03:00] things that happened to you in the past. Yes.
I wanna make up for everything that happened to you. Girl. What can I do?
Let me tell you. I used to be in a, I went to all white schools and everything like that, so I would be the girl in the circle at night where all the white girls were crying and holding each other. We were talking about our problems and they would get to me and be like, Kenny, you don’t have any problems.
Like I want to be centered, but I’m afraid to ask, or I want to be able to ask for what I want. Like I want to feel worshiped. I want to feel like I’m the center of the room. Okay. Because I always felt like the white women were uhhuh and I had to center them too in order to be their friend. Yeah. But they never felt like they had to center me.
I would like to also be able to ask the men, like be more dominant, but I actually hired a Dom coach ’cause I can’t tell the men what to do. Okay. I don’t know how to be dominant Uhhuh.
So you would like someone to kind of take charge and to put you into a space of pleasure and to completely overwhelm [00:04:00] your body and senses with joy and pleasure and all.
No, I want to be the. You want
a dom? I want to, you want a dom? Be the dom You okay? Because I’m in a position Uhhuh as an African American woman where Uhhuh, it’s more submissive. You wanna be in charge? Yes. I wanna be in charge. You wanna be in charge?
Yes. Gotcha. Okay. So you, so the goddess, the honoring thing is one thing.
Yes. But also you wanna learn how to really say what I want. Yeah. Get what I want. Yeah. Oh, I’m good at that. That’s
not been allowed,
so, okay. Anyways, you know, isn’t allowed now.
Not yet. I’m not there
yet. Interesting. I’m not there yet. A lot of times when I hit the bed I’m like, okay, you guys, here’s what I wanna do.
And they’re like, okay, that sounds good. And then I’ll say, Nope, I changed my mind. Now I wanna do this. And sometimes I’ll be like, I’m not sure what I wanna do. Do you guys have any ideas? And they’ll throw out a bunch of ideas and I’ll go, oh yeah, I like that, Susan. That is my
dream. Yeah. Well, that’s what you gotta do next time.
Okay, well I’m gonna find out how. Yeah. Now you tell me. I wanna know what was it like for you? Because you’re on the playground, here you [00:05:00] are. You’re fully sexually open. You’ve never been repressed by Christianity. Yes. So was that just like the sixties, like the, I mean, that’s how they describe the sixties.
Yeah. I think that, um, I’m unusual in that I, I hooed oppression, patriarchy, uh, male dominance, um, slut shaming. Wow. Religious repression. Mm-hmm. My mother raised me to believe in myself. She would say to me, babe. You make the decisions ’cause you make great decisions. You know what you want. You go ahead and just do what you got.
Oh my God, you’re a smart girl. You know what you’re doing. That is crazy. Just make decisions about what you want. You don’t have to do anything anybody else thinks you should do. You do what you wanna do. So I was raised in the six, six. The seventies, the eighties when we had all of this great, these great sexual experiences.
Okay. The sexual revolution, I had access to birth control. Oh my. I had, uh, I had, I got, I put myself through night school and got a college degree. [00:06:00] Right. I, uh, had a job. I started my own company. I had my own sovereignty, and I have. Always felt like I had my own sexual sovereignty, even through the hard parts and the struggle.
Mm. I never felt anybody owned me. Wow. Or my body. Okay. So now I’ve had a lot of bad things happen to me. Mm-hmm. It’s not like I haven’t had you name it go wrong. I understand Date rapes. Pregnancies by accident. Sure. Having an abort, you know, like all kinds of, you know, terrible things have happened to me.
Mm-hmm. Herpes. Mm-hmm. I was given herpes, you know, like all, all kinds of things have happened, which I feel gives me the heart and the compassion for what people go through. Sure. To want to explore their sexuality. Yes. You know how to do it gracefully and carefully.
Yes. I didn’t always
do it gracefully.
Yes. Well, in terms of healing. Together. I believe that patriarchy has affected both white women and black women [00:07:00] and white women and black men and all the other races of people who’ve been here. And the men, every color,
every gender is a bad idea. We gotta get rid of it.
Right? And, but I think healing together means having these conversations.
Yeah. And learning. Yeah. Because if I’m learning from you, like you have a lot to teach in terms of sexual confidence, in terms of, yeah. Sovereignty. Yeah. And then I have a lot to teach. Yeah. In terms of like,
what do I have to teach you? Well you, you’re teaching me a lot about how men can hold space. Mm-hmm.
You’re teaching me a lot about the black women’s experience. Mm-hmm. And what I’m most interested in is what I can do to help. Women. Mm-hmm. Especially women of color. Mm-hmm. Move into the pleasure. Yes. Because that’s my area of expertise. Yes. Is orgasmic pleasure and Yes. Connection and ecstasy. Yes.
Right.
And a lot of white men tell me that I’m very nurturing uhhuh. And that is something that we were really trained to be instead of sexual. Mm. So having [00:08:00] that skill, it’s still a feminine skill. So, you know, with the sexual confidence is here with the nurturing of a man, the cultivation of his spirit. Mm. I can go there.
Mm-hmm. So we can trade. Yes.
I’ve got a few things I think I’d like to teach you.
Yes. Well, I have the same, and then we should spread this out. Yeah. Thank you for this conversation. It’s been
